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Post by d on Jan 8, 2007 8:42:56 GMT -4
It's all true. The only thing we haven't worked out is Carolina. We worked out the extra wood startup resource last night. With extra food or gold, it's easy. The second age starts at 2:05, not 1:05, so they can't quit out when they see us age up early. B also forgot the warrior priest which can heal. Good "luck."
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Post by pcups on Jan 8, 2007 23:16:30 GMT -4
Yea, it seems you beat a corp with 37 win %, and seargent ith 47 win%, the only good guy on their team was the second lt. Good job guys! Im proud that you can noob bash. Beat someone good, but it does look really good so far. keep it coming! Oh by the way, one of the guys has 8 games that he lost before he aged up to age 2. Good job!
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Post by pcups on Jan 8, 2007 23:20:37 GMT -4
sorry got my facts wrong, one guy had a 32 win % and used a civ that he has only won with 6 times out of 17. my bad.
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Post by boorules60 on Jan 8, 2007 23:40:01 GMT -4
Where is your counter Patrick... or do you really think that your words alone can stop our rush entirely?
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Post by mrniceguy on Jan 9, 2007 0:24:42 GMT -4
_The_Unknown has a 98 win %. he has one teammate. when they play games end within 6 minutes and no military units were created... he played a few games against his teammate and won all of them in under 3 mins while creating not but his explorer and maybe a war dog. he is a captain but he lost a game to a corporal in the longest game he has played (59 mins) he has one hc, one deck, and it looks like a jan rush (maybe with grens) either way... someone needs to stop this uber noob basher. can i borrow someone's lower rank account?
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Post by d on Jan 9, 2007 17:36:04 GMT -4
Would you like to be DtheTurk a 50 % winning private?
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Post by pcups on Jan 9, 2007 21:39:26 GMT -4
i dont know, maybe ben forgot that town center with the german card "team teutonic towncenter" kills a puma in 1 hit. Ow!! those words will win bien. Oh yea, its team, forgot that one. Coupled with that single player one which gives your tc 50% attack 30% hp, on top of the teutonic towncenter. Holy Fuck, stick with the grenadier strategy.
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Post by boorules60 on Jan 10, 2007 2:03:59 GMT -4
Ow! Why don't you actually test this shit before you go making stupid assumptions like that PCups? Also, why are you being so critical of the rush instead of learning it and helping us perfect it?
You are playing as the Germans are you not? Our attack enters your town at 3:00 +- 5 seconds. At this time you will have 3 settler wagons and 6 villagers. Your 7th villager will NOT be built before 3:30. Why does it matter you may ask? If you send all your vills and settlers into the town center at 3 mins, this + the teutonic TC gives your TC 121 ranged attack... unfortunately, my pumas have 135 HP! Fuck, that means it takes two shots to kill them, NOT one as you suggested. If you had the extra 7th villager (which you won't because the villagers physically cannot build fast enough) THEN your TC can kill the pumas in one hit... but in the 30 seconds it takes for you to build the peasant, you just lost your TC because it takes the 16 pumas + explorers and other stuff a bit over 30 seconds to kill the teutonic TC.
Other factors work against you too. First of all, it takes your villagers about 10 seconds to move from the food they are gathering to ALL be in the TC together and do max damage. In 10 seconds, you've lost about 1/4 of the TC already! You TC will only get about another 6 shots off as it is before it falls... and in that time, I just reinforced myself with 10 MORE pumas and 5 coyotes. That is WAY more than you have killed in that time... even if you had a 1 hit KO.
Also, if you don't micro your TC, it will shoot the pumas in a circle so I would know what one it was going to shoot next, and but that one into cover mode. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that you need a minimum of level 25 to even GET the teutonic TC card, and you need to weed through a bunch of other shitty shipment to get it too.
You also might be wondering what would happen if I didn't attack you first and you DID get that 7th peasant. Well, you may have forgotten that I am reinforcing myself with 10 pumas every 30 seconds, so I hit the next person with 26 minus whatever I lost, and the reinforcements are STILL coming. Your TC shoots once every 3 seconds, so even if the TC never fell, I could hypothetically reinforce the 10 I lost in the 30 of shooting with 10 new ones! The doesn't even account for units I am getting through shipments which speed things along even faster!
Oh yeah, you also aren't getting the 2 settler wagon card which cripples your already shitty economy for a wasted shipment that might kill an extra puma or two. Implicitly, your doing us a favor by fucking or own economy to hell anyway! Without the extra villas, your ability to rebuild and age up and build almost everything suffers by 30% because the 2 settler wagons make up about 30% of your total peasant pop at that point in the game (13-14 in most cases)
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What you also need to consider is this: Yes, if you know that this exact rush is coming and counter it with a slingshot and nearly the same civs etc etc etc... it IS possible to stop it. Duh. Herein lies the problem: we won't be using it against each other. You guys would never let me Tim and D be on a 3v3 team because we'd kick your ass slingshot or not.
We WILL be using this strat online. What percentage of people - Play the Germans - At are level 25+ - Actually HAVE the Teutonic TC card - Would think to select the right deck - And send it as their first shipment All if they have no idea that this type of rush is coming?
Your right; that shipment is a decent one against this rush, but how practical is it in reality? The chances of all 5 of those points actually happening in a random online game are EXTREMELY minimal. A counter slingshot combined with the ideal civs for stopping this rush could probably work, but does it even matter?
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Post by pcups on Jan 10, 2007 13:31:08 GMT -4
good rant ben, it was kinda pointless, i didnt read it.
Nick and I were just thinking about how to beat your strat, thats all you didnt need to get all huffy. Its just a game buddy, oh and i would just send the team teuton center because... SW's count as two peasants.
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Post by pcups on Jan 10, 2007 13:35:35 GMT -4
Oh, and it wouldnt even matter if did kill me, with chris as the spanish, being able to send two cards, (colonial militia and 3 peasants) before the second age, he would just rush up (while you are killing me) and attack everyone's crippled economy, then nick will come and blah blah blah you know the drill.
Oh by the way, we probably should have a lannin take, since you guys have lost the last 3.
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Post by boorules60 on Jan 10, 2007 14:47:26 GMT -4
Since you can't seem to read intellegent responses, I'll sum it up in words you CAN understand.
1) Actually, it is Team Teutonic Center that is pointless. It will NOT kill pumas in one hit because you do not have enough peasants at 3 minutes when I hit, instead it takes 2 hits which is what it would take without the teutonic TC. The 1900 extra HP slows me down by 9 seconds.
2) Colonial Militia is also pointless. You will NOT have the 550 gold and food necessary to send the minutemen twice... even by 4 minutes. If the choice you make is to not build any peasants, great! That puts you in worse shape than D and Tim even if the TC lives.
3) Are you seriously leaving your team's fate in the hands of Chris? Ha ha ha! What will he have... even at 5 minutes when I hit HIS base? Maybe a barracks and 11 rodeleros if he's lucky. We'll see who wins THAT battle!
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Post by pcups on Jan 10, 2007 18:49:16 GMT -4
YOU KNOW ben im not actually like this, im just pushing your buttons because it makes it more fun to play.
But down to business! You seemed to misenterpret my comments regarding colonial militia, its not even to send minutemen, its that WITH teutonic town center, WILL kill your pumas in one hit, i wont be able to send two cards. SO you can kill me all you want, but as long as i have my explorer wondering around im still in the game. Since everyone else destroys their econ just so you can puma, or who ever does it, you guys are really in the hole. My team acts normally, except for me or who ever decides to be germans and take a hit on the chin. Because you can take down me but after i kill half your pumas you will have to go to either chris or nick. Who will have both cards and plenty of resources to compensate.
Im not putting my faith is chris, im mostly putting it nick. I say chris just because we wil have more shipments than nick and i.
And when you hit chrises base, he will have 10 peasants, actually he should have 14. So when you hit his TC and he has 11 rods not only will he kill your puma puma but he will go raid D. And then nick will jump in with jannies and all that jazz..
DED
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Post by boorules60 on Jan 10, 2007 19:49:25 GMT -4
In response to you briefly, yes, I do see that other players could have a tough TC and kill the pumas in one hit. However, by the time I get to them, I will have 26 pumas, 5 coyotes, etc. This army CAN destroy a TC before I lose too many pumas. The reinforement come at the exact rate that the TC kills them ironically enough. It's annoying but not crushing. I minunderstood the colonial militia thing... yes, the extra HP is a hinderance too. May require more testing. Does Teut TC and Col. Militia stack?
I don't mean to contend that this rush is completely unstoppable because of course, it isn't. I have complete faith that is you guys were 100% sure that we were slinging and desgned a perfect counter to it, we would probably die. For example, if you were the Russians, Iroquois, Sioux, or Aztecs, I believe that you guys could conter-sling that person some archers or strelets or whatever and kill the pumas no problem when combined with the Teut TC, colonial militia, etc...
However, I would be much more interested in spesific ways that people online might counter us if they didn't realize that something funky was going on until 2 minutes when I hit the 2nd age. It's too late to resign at that point. For example, someone suggested that a Spanish player might begin killing my peasants with war dogs as they are trying to construct the war huts. However, with my war chief and warrior priest, it would take an explorer +5 war dogs to kill the villagers and delay the construction of the war huts. The spanish player would need to guess the exact spot where my peasants would arrive, and build 4 additional war dogs at 40 seconds to have my peasants dead before the war hut was build. This means the Spanish player would have to build NO peasants initally AND be lucky enough to guess the exact spot on a 3 player map where my FB would be at 40 seconds. Not a likely scenario.
However, it is feedback like this that I think could be helpful to counter anything that might go wrong assuming we have relatively ignorant opponants, but ones that might be able to identify a slingshot at 2 minutes when my score is high when I have just aged up. If they see at 2 minutes that something is funky... what might people do THEN when it is too late to sling and probably too late to cancel their first shipment. They war huts are built and they may or may not know where.
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Post by pcups on Jan 10, 2007 20:20:11 GMT -4
Ok well, from just my basic experience and talking with you, the most civs that are going to give you the most problems are iroquios, spanish, germans, and ports.
Now, spanish are being nerfed again, which means many players will resort to rushing instead of FFing, its going to be unsteady.
Iroquios, can have an attack ready for 4:00, they get their first shipment of tomahawks like at 3:15 from the bigbutton and then the shipment is on its way
So you gotta be sharp for them. In response to the war dog scenario, it does happen and i do do it. But if the spanish guy starts building war dogs, he explorer cant move, so if you see the explorer stop then move your peasant away and buildsome where else. Warrior priest wont be a match for hte doggies sadly. The truth is just avoid doggies, they are pain in the ass and its better just to go away from them.
And yea, col militia does stack, otherwise it would be useless. I was excited for a while because the iroquios have a card that decreases tc cost 50% and boost attack by 100%, it would be souseful, but since its 2nd age, its a no go.
oh and, i would say be able to age up at a time thats not so fishy, like 3:30 and have the attack by 3:45, because those iroquois/spanish players will be watching for you.
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Post by d on Jan 11, 2007 0:13:41 GMT -4
I was wondering if it was worth my trouble to slingshot B to take out a similar Turk opposing us. The slingshot delays me but taking out his TC delays him. Who wins? I'm delayed 2:30 and he's delayed 3:30 if he loses his TC at 3:30. I can build 20 abus, 5 jans, 3 hussars and 20 settlers at 10:00. He can build 15 jans, 3 hussars and 17 settlers. What it may truely depend on is, who has an army after the 3 opponents lose their TCs, which they will. If we have an army, they lose settlers and vice versa. B will be in the second age as will one of them. They will have more settlers before the attack but we will gain some after.
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