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Post by boorules60 on Dec 12, 2008 12:13:42 GMT -4
To tell you the truth, I think that Ford is probably going to be OK relatively speaking. With Chrystler (who is going out of business for sure) and GM (who probably has the same fate) both going under, there is going to be a bit of a spike in the demand for Ford cars and especially Ford trucks. I actually think that Ford is developing a hybrid that is set to come out in 09, but don't quote me on that one. They weren't in as much trouble as either of the other two to begin with, so I actually think they might pull though this and become the new leader in American autos.
GM on the other hand, IF (and it's a big IF) they are going to pull through this, really does have to work from the top down. They are billions of dollars in debt which, even if it was resolved, isn't going to change the fact no one wants their cars. That quote is a good one, they ignored the fact that consumers, not suppliers, drive the economy and always have. Even if the CEOs and top managers cut their bonuses for a year or two, that wouldn't even give them close enough money to keep them solvent for very long. Although I'm a little sceptical about the Republican reasoning too, you have to keep in mind that the labor union WAS willing to negotiate in order to save their jobs. Wouldn't you? There's only so long that competative industries like that are able to keep paying above market wages beofore they're driven under. At one point, they were paying more to their retired employees (such as my uncle) than their current ones!
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Post by boorules60 on Dec 12, 2008 12:15:15 GMT -4
And this has nothing to do with deregulation. You can't blame everything on that P_Cups!
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Post by d on Dec 12, 2008 15:21:57 GMT -4
Speaking of your aunt and uncle, they're going to be fine with your aunts school pension and social security. Take a look at many others however. Their house values are depressed. They lost their GM pensions and benefits. Their 401k's are half what they were if they're lucky and social security and medicare are eventually going insolvent. There are a shit load of baby boomers that are in serious trouble. Even the responsible ones. Oh, they have no chance for retaining or getting another job.
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Post by boorules60 on Feb 24, 2009 0:29:06 GMT -4
Man, the Dow closed around 7,100, it's lowest close since April 1997. In case you forgot, it's 2009, so this is the lowest close in 12 years but since the Dow usually has an upward inflationary trend, it's probably the worst it's been in "real" terms in 30 years... or even arguably since the depression. Unemployment is the highest it's been in a decade or two as well. AIG, GM, Chrysler, Citibank, and all the others have been asking for more bailout money, but one has to wonder how much a few extra bucks is going to do at this point. Clearly their behavior in the past has not worked, so now Washington need to take big step fast to get things moving again before this mess spirals out of control again.
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Post by pcups on Feb 24, 2009 11:48:08 GMT -4
I read a really interesting article on NY Times saying nationalization of banks was the only real way to save them (then reselling them of course) and I agree with their opinion. Obama needs to step it the fuck up and stop pleasing the fiscal conservatives. They are history and Obama is now. Obama's aides say he doesn't want to be like FDR. Why the fuck not?
Apparently this is supposed to last until 2010.
Hey, at least Obama promised to cut our deficit in half.
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Post by punkybruster on Feb 26, 2009 0:11:48 GMT -4
So I was talking to a friend of mine, and he said that the relative wealth that the Clinton administration experienced was due to the Reaganomics in the Reagan administration. He then proceeded to explain that the current economic crisis can be attributed to the housing crunch set up by the push of the Clinton administration to get low-income people "affordable" housing.
I tore him a new a-hole on trickle-down economics, but I didn't know where to proceed on the loan stuff.
I'm glad Obama talked about Keynesian economics (indirectly) in his speech. Green jobs really are the perfect thing to get the economy back in shape. The loan market gets revamped because green investments require large capital, the blue-collar workers get a boost because some manufacturing, construction, and assembly must be done in the US, and the engineers get a boost because green energy needs investment in research and development. Yay economy + environment!
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Post by pcups on Feb 26, 2009 14:52:34 GMT -4
This is quite an issue in my Environmental Policy class as you might expect. GE seems to be our best bet for resolving this issue, for they are one of the few companies actually excelling in the production of "Green". For example they just helped China build that new power plant that is 2x as clean as their normal coal plants. American company selling American ideas and products that help the environment is definitely a plus. Plus GE seems to be a good company, morally that is.
I'm not so sure why conservatives are still so up in arms about the Reagen administration. Most of the problems we see today are due to the complete deconstruction of the new deal Reagen implemented. His god damn secretary of environmental protection asked for LESS money so they couldn't regulate polluters... On paper, economic rationalism makes plenty of sense, but because the market is so volatile and when unregulated, easy to manipulate, it is not a good idea. Free market also doesn't allocate cost accordingly. The cost of a tree is measured on how much money it can make some one. But what happens if we leave the tree alone? How much money does that give back to society. We don't know and the market doesn't care. Common pool resources are left to the wolves.
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Post by boorules60 on Feb 26, 2009 16:30:38 GMT -4
If you interested on why your friend is wrong about the loan crisis, consider this: If it was the Clinton push for low income housing that caused the current loan crisis then we would have seen a lot of people who had owned their house for 10 years being the ones that were foreclosing since it has been about 10 years since Clinton made his last major economic moves. However, there were relatively few foreclosures for people who owned their home for this long. Nearly ALL of the foreclosures came about for people who had owned their home for a little over 2 years... actually, about 2-5 years before this crisis started in fall of 2007. Why 2-5 years? There are two major factors that go into a person's decision to purchasing a home: The price of the home itself and interest rate: if either one (or both) is low, you will see an increase in the demand of housing. In mid 2001, we had a minor recession for about 6 months due to the tech bubble burst and the stock market crash that ensued. In an attempt to get us out of this recession quickly, the head of the Federal Reserve lowered interest rates(specifically the federal funds rate) from 6.5% were they were at the end of the Clinton Administration to 1% by 2003 in the hopes that people would spend more money and get the economy going again. President BUSH (not Clinton... this is 2001-3 now) backed Greenspan's decision and got money in people's pockets via a stimulus check and tax cuts. Interest rates were slow to recover and combined with low housing prices from the weak economy, demand for houses skyrocketed. Eventually, this increase in the demand for housing caused housing prices (which are very sensitive as it is) to be at record highs by 2004 and 2005. Many people couldn't afford them and so they took out a "sub-prime" mortgage. This is a mortgage whose rate is fixed for 2 years and then is allowed to change (almost always increase). Basically, people bought wicked expensive houses that they couldn't afford and postponed the high interest rates for two years. Do you see the pieces of the puzzle coming together yet? Two years later (2006-7 now) the sub-prime rates increased, and people soon realized that there was no way in hell they could afford to make payments on these expensive houses with high interest rates. This is a recipe for foreclosures (when people just don't make payments on loans and so the creditor repossesses it). People who had fixed rates were OK because those rates didn't increase. People who had owned their house FOR 10 YEARS were OK because the house was more payed off and chances are THEY NEVER TOOK OUT A SUB-PRIME LOAN. The people who were fucked were the ones who had owned their house for 2-5 years and were faced with increasing interest rates because of their sub-prime loan! Summary: - Interest rates relatively high after the end of the Clinton administration (6.5%) - Recession comes and Greenspan lowers rates - BUSH backs this plan and fosters it with stimulus checks and tax cuts - Demand for housing skyrockets - People take out sub-prime loans so they can buy an over-priced house - TWO years later their rate starts to go up - They realize they're fucked and foreclose - Banks and creditors who made these loans (and then later sold the loans as risky securities that people could invest in) are shit out of luck... a lot of times - Credit tightens up, - People stop spending - Firms start to cut back production or go out of business - Unemployement Clinton's role in all of this: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING People who DID play a role: -Bush -Greenspan -Sub-Prime lenders -Retards who took out mortgages that they never had a fucking prayer of paying back -Retards who sold these loans as securities with enourmous risk Interest Rate Source: www.federalreserve.gov/fomc/fundsrate.htmForeclosure Info: www.usattorneylegalservices.com/foreclosure-statistics.htmlQED
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Post by pcups on Feb 26, 2009 23:04:29 GMT -4
You didn't describe the Sub-Prime lenders Ben. I would describe them as greedy and ridiculously retarded. Oh and thanks for the explanation. Damn! Although I don't think I could remember all of that in an argument
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Post by boorules60 on Mar 3, 2009 21:38:21 GMT -4
Young Thomas, clever and bright, bought a donkey from a farmer for $100.
The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.
The next day the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry Thomas, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."
Thomas replied, "Well, then just give me my money back."
The farmer said, "I can't do that. I went and spent the money already."
Thomas said, "OK, then, just bring me the dead donkey."
The farmer asked, "What are you going to do with a dead donkey?
Thomas said, "I'm going to raffle him off."
The farmer said "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"
Thomas said, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead."
A month later, the farmer met up with Thomas and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey?"
Thomas boasted, "I raffled him off! -- I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a nice profit of $898.00."
The farmer said, "Didn't anyone complain?'
Thomas said, "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."
The farmer shook his head in amazement, and walked away.
A year later, Thomas comes running into the farmer's yard, out of breath and looking frightened.
"You must help me hide!" cries Thomas.
The farmer asks, "Why? What's wrong?"
Thomas explained, "I went all over the village, hiring people to sell raffle tickets for the same dead donkey, and then those people hired other people to go to other villages and sell raffle tickets for the same dead donkey, and now there are thousands of raffles taking place all over the kingdom. Millions of people and pension funds bought my raffle tickets, but the donkey started to stink and everybody found out it was dead, so now they want their raffle ticket money back!"
The farmer suggested, "Just pay back the money, Thomas."
"I can't!" Thomas moaned. "I spent it all on bonuses for my raffle salespeople, and private jets, and huge mansions, and an opulent lifestyle to which we, in the raffle ticket business, have become accustomed. Not only that, I borrowed against my raffle ticket earnings 35 fold, so now I OWE 35 TIMES the money I actually earned!"
The farmer thought a moment, then smiled. "Don't worry, Thomas. I know what to do."
Thomas asked, "What can possibly be done?"
The farmer answered, "Your raffle operation is the biggest business in all the land. It's too big to fail. The King will bail you out, for the good of all his loyal subjects.
And with that, Thomas beseeched the King for billions of dollars to create the R.T.R.P. (Raffle Ticket Relief Program) to buy back all the worthless raffle tickets.
Everybody thought that would be the end of it, but it turns out the King didn't have enough money to bail out the Raffle ticket holders, so he issued official "Raffle Bonds" to borrow money from other lands.
Everybody thought THAT would be the end of it, except when the rulers of other lands figured out their lent money was being spent on dead donkey raffle tickets, they stopped lending it. So the King decided to just print the money to buy back the dead donkey raffle tickets.
Everybody thought THAT would be the end of it, until it turns out that printing money causes each individual dollar to be worth much less, so prices for goods and services rose enormously throughout the kingdom. The King decided to issue a new paper currency denominated at 1/10th the face value of the old dollars, and forced everyone to exchange their old money for new money so prices would come down to normal again.
Everybody thought THAT would be the end of it, until the same thing happened with the new currency, so the people rose up and toppled the King with torches and pitchforks, and installed a new ruling government with a new currency backed by gold.
And THEN they all lived happily ever after.
The End. (Thanks linkydinky.com)
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Post by pcups on Mar 4, 2009 1:08:55 GMT -4
So Ron Paul was right?
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Post by pcups on Mar 4, 2009 15:58:50 GMT -4
Ben may have seen but I don't know about others. projects.nytimes.com/44th_president/stimulusShows what the stimulus package is going to. Seems like my mom and dad are getting monay! Oh and the environment is getting 15.6 billion dollars. Not including the money being spent on high speed railway system, alternative energy, clean coal, and general public transportation. Don't invest in any car companies. Prediction: In 10 years car companies will either be nationalized or non existent (unless they build buses/trains).
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Post by boorules60 on Mar 4, 2009 17:15:39 GMT -4
Great find P_Cups!
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Post by pcups on Mar 12, 2009 23:24:19 GMT -4
Holy shit, did you guys see the daily show for tonight? Jon Stewart just fucking OWNED Jim Kramer form MSNBC. It was amazing. I almost felt bad for Kramer but Stewart just laid it on him. Man, I hope some one from Fox News comes onto the Daily Show. Jon Stewart is much more unforgiving than I thought.
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Post by boorules60 on Apr 4, 2009 12:18:33 GMT -4
Hey all, Just wanted to do a quick update to keep the forum alive. I did a phone interview with Liberty yesterday and have one with Amica Insurance on Tuesday. Also, I went to a government job career fair and there's a job fair at PC and one in NH on Thursday! Also, this might entertain you: videos.aclevercookie.com/video/ALvrdtoi
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