The DUtch!!!

[boorules60]

The Russians and the Germans are by far the best at holding off rushes... gotta love free uhlans and those blockhouses. The French also aren't bad because they have ranged armor and a ton of HP and attack. 10 French peasants if they are upgraded can kill 10 second age janassaries no sweat if they hit and run. Its just that most civs would have a hard time dealing with 60 pikemen at 7:30.

[pcups]

True true ben, and the civs that arent so good at holding off the rush (ports, spanish, dutch, and britts) have to compromise by FFing, or booming in a way that they can utilize the 3rd age completely. Ports and Spanish got it down but the dutch and the britts especially the dutch have the hardest time,

But the ottos who are the main rushing civ cant beat a Dutch rush, if they can pull it off in time with Skirms. Its weird how things go full circle

[boorules60]

I got beat by a german guy once who slingshotted his ally and hit me with 15 dopples and maybe 4 uhlans in 8 mins online when I was the French. I didn't have the early skirm card and my minutemen killed a whopping TWO of them... impressive. But if you think about it, ALL civs have at least some advantage to defending a rush (strong peasents, blockhouses, free uhlans, 2nd age skirms, fast shipments, 2 TC, free peasents/jans). Who did I leave out? Oh yeah, the Brittish cuz they suck.

[d]

It's interesting that skrims are perhaps best at defending a rush but really sink in creating on.

[pcups]

Its the way the game is supposed to be. Where as pikemen are good at the rush but suck against units.

[punkybruster]

You certainly got it right about pikes sucking against units... 1 pike vs 1 peasant = peasant wins. no lies.

I am going to make the assertion that the Dutch could hold off a pikemen rush, now after the patch, whereas they could not before. They essentially start off with another settler, the TC has 1000 more HP, and the 2nd age up has less wood. THose are all factors which work agaisnt the rushers or for the defense.
The dutch are hurt because they have less wood to build banks early, or barracks early. BUT banks continue to generate gold while being attacked and peasants do not. (or they die quickly). If some skirms are there to defend a base, and some pikes choose to try to attack the skirms instead of the TC, the TC would last longer and the barracks would produce more skirms to kill the remaining pikes. (the pikes could probably attack the skirms since they are the same speed after the patch). If all the pikes attack the TC, the skirms are left unhindered to kill them along with additional skirms produced at the barracks. If the pikes attack the barracks, there may not be enough left after to take out the TC.

[pcups]

This is true but there are several factors missing.

-Pikemen have the cover ability that allows them to take half the ranged damage while still doing the same to buildings.

-the only civ that i can think of that would have pikemen AND calvary is germany. The calvary could change things.

-You forgot minute men which kick ass. Especially with a couple of towers.

-I think pikemen are 4.5 speed and the and the skirms are 4 speed. Im not sure though you will have to update me on that.

But yea the rush has gotten harder now since the patch.

[d]

With 3v3 or greater a rush will most certainly fail. Even 2v2 is very risky. Indians can be very annoying but won't wipe you out. I wonder if it's not time to do a german merch attack again.

[pcups]

^fucking takes too long to do a merc rush. It also is too hard to do an indian rush.

[Jake P.]

Thats why i don't bother...lol

[boorules60]

I was actually thinking Pat and Tim might not do bad to do a merc rush... Germans need gold. Dutch have gold. They really did everything they could to neutralize mercenaries altogether. And what's worse? The Russians don't have pikes I'd have to do it again with my slow-ass Frenchies. Speaking of which jake, have you decided on a civ?

[pcups]

Yea, he has chosen dutch...

[pcups]

Germans can get gold faster than dutch, especially with settler wagons.

[Jake P.]

Pats right..Im dutch. I like them..they work well for my style of play. I never max out on settlers anyway so 50 for me is good. Settlers build fast and cost gold so that means I can age fast and not have to worry about using food or gold cause of banks. Their military is pretty good...especially with instant ruyders. We'll see what you guys think when I perfect my game.

[pcups]

Instant calvary destroys your economy as dutch, as well as any other civ, ask tim. Even when i used instant uhlans as germans.