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Post by boorules60 on Nov 3, 2006 0:13:28 GMT -4
Don't worry D, it won't matter WHO is in front because his army will be 90% dead in two rounds of bombard shots. Oh well. It was worth a shot. :-)
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Post by pcups on Nov 3, 2006 16:26:48 GMT -4
Well ben does have a good point in some things buuut, oh man fire pit takes up 10 more pop than yours? Big deal, and we all know tim isnt very responsive to your orp raids. And again what are you going to raid? Peasants? my warrior priest? all expendable and take about 10 seconds to replenish!
Do you know how slowly bombards move? Suddenly the 2 extra range of the archer knights becomes pretty long. Simple micro can out do cannons. Move out of their range of fire and then move back in before d can click on the fire button. Its an easy concept and easily countered? gonna use orps i thought you were raiding with them! You also dont have unlimited pop. Remember i can have 25 cards in my deck, i can have 3 cards to increase ALL INF hit points and attack. I dont see a negative in this.
Besides i dont even know why we are argueing im not planning on using the aztecs.
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 3, 2006 19:02:41 GMT -4
D tested the archer knight thing and the bombards blew the shit out of them because they just couldn't kill the bombards fast enough. The two extra range is not much... and the bombards can move during the time that it takes them to fire.
I'm not saying the aztecs are bad, I just think their biggest weakness is artillary... and the Ottos have a great way of protecting their arty too. What civ are you using PCups? Spanish now or the Iriquois?
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Post by pcups on Nov 3, 2006 20:56:55 GMT -4
im still using the old 3 and iros.
D should test bombards and light cannons, i think LC have 32 range. cost 100 wood and 300 gold.
And i think that in well microed hands the archer knights will do fine, they fire really quicklyu.
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Post by pcups on Nov 3, 2006 20:58:24 GMT -4
I dont really have an accurate idea of indians vs euros to tell you thte truth, all i know are the numbers. Since all the people i play suck just as much as me using hte natives so they are pretty much noob battles.
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Post by pcups on Nov 3, 2006 20:59:46 GMT -4
Remember when Tims ruyters were supposed to be the best? And now look how they turn out, the aztecs could turn out to be really crappy or really good, just like the dutch they aztecs have good numbers but they could prove crappy in games. Who knows.
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Post by d on Nov 3, 2006 21:53:36 GMT -4
Pcups, your comment about microing your units when fighting the Turks was interesting. Indeed the bombards can blow away an enemies units in a instant. I think that's why B and I do well together. We'll wait until an enemy is focused with fighting me, and then B will do an orp raid. They can't micro two attacks at the same time and either attack can ruin their day.
On another note, the fast age 2 research allows Tim to get an early raiding party. If he can kill just a few of my settlers, I'm in trouble. I think that's an advantage the soiux have. The other natives aren't as good at raiding. In terms of raiding, dog soldiers are even more deadly than orps.
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Post by pcups on Nov 4, 2006 1:06:02 GMT -4
iroquios also have an advantage of being able to get a war hut up instantly near your huntables and start producing strelet like bows immediate after age up. And still have a better economy than the soiux, tims strategy only works well in a 1v1. People will eventually realise that its not that effective and his economy withers away with it.
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Post by mrniceguy on Nov 4, 2006 8:52:40 GMT -4
i played as the aztecs last night against a sioux guy and won. i think there are 3 major advantages of the aztecs.
1. they are cheap and not that strong but if they're effective against something they are REALLY effective against something. and if they aren't then they aren't. the sioux guy and i kept changing which guys we built to counter each other which was new to me. i did it easier because of the cheap, fast moving (compared to jans) infantry that i built.
2. that wicked attack fire pit thing
3. warrior priests can heal and fight!
i haven't had a chance to test the aztecs against the ottos but apparently those rock slingers as well as the jaguar prowlers are quite effective against heavy infantry. as an ottoman, i will venture to say that jaguar prowlers counter everything i would build by themselves (other than artillery) i don't know how they do against imp bombards so i can't say much. but we will see i'm sure...
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Post by d on Nov 4, 2006 9:00:00 GMT -4
Hey Nick
You got it right they are good againsts everything except bombards - so. Build bombards!
Hey Pcups
The axe riders with chief can easily move from town to town and be used in 2v2 or 3v3 games. Try that with aztecs or tomahawks. Much too slow.
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Post by pcups on Nov 4, 2006 9:41:36 GMT -4
even with tim's speed the time it takes to move from town to town on a 3v3 is too long. Put a tower by your food peasants and tim's game is over.
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Post by pcups on Nov 4, 2006 9:43:30 GMT -4
And remember this really quick strategy involves someone slingshotting tim, so unless you both want to ruin your economy, tim isnt goign to get them by 4:15 MAYBE a little earlier. By that everyone will deffinately be in the 2nd age.
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Post by d on Nov 4, 2006 13:23:50 GMT -4
I not going to tell Tim how raid, but I would take a guardian or two that I captured, and keep them around the town centers, and when someone starts to build an outpost, they die. If someone slingshots Tim, the attacks start before 3 minutes. Also, by getting Tim to the second age, he can get second age shipments which can be used to help him or an ally's ecomony. Also, if you can build outposts, Tim's game maybe over but I'm building grenadiers (and maybe some jans too). And NO, everyone is not in the second age by 4:15. Natives yes. Turks and Spanish sometimes. Others not likely.
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 4, 2006 13:58:00 GMT -4
Yes Nick, the aztecs are amazing for killing cavalry only civs such as the sioux, russians, and french... but really have a tough time with artillary. I smell pwnage.
And D... I think it would be far more effective to slingshot me still, because I can take out their towncenter before they can even come up with an army to stop me. And wiping one of them off the map is more effective than simply killing a few peasants.
And I am in the 2nd age at 4:30 in most games.
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Post by pcups on Nov 4, 2006 17:03:37 GMT -4
Again everyone's argument is really good, tim's rush, d's what ever, ben's slingshot, my deffense, but right now we are just looking at stats, we havent really played each other with these specific strategies, it think its harder to do on each other than other random people.
So we will just have to wait and see...
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