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Post by d on Oct 22, 2006 18:02:34 GMT -4
I've been looking at the new the native american civs this weekend. I can't find a reason to switch to any of them. Can anyone other than Jake (Sorry Jake, your opinion on civs doesn't carry much weight with me) make a case for using them?
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Post by Jake P. on Oct 22, 2006 18:29:08 GMT -4
Sorry d, but I'm going to give my opinion anyway. Its fine if you don't want to switch to any of them. Thats why they kept the other civs in. In the end I'll probably stick with the dutch. But the fire pit is hard to resist.
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Post by pcups on Oct 22, 2006 20:14:03 GMT -4
Mostly because they are dfiferent. I cant see my self every playing ottomans or dutch, but people still play them. I see no reason to though. I think it just depends on your play style, the natives, at least the aztec play style is fun for me.
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Post by tandler on Oct 22, 2006 20:23:59 GMT -4
I think that the native civs are different like Pat says. I also think that I like the native sioux or whatever they are called, because thier Calvalry is totally amazing, Thier hero is op, and all of the cavalry units do 2x against artillery, and the hero (who has splash damage) with the extra damage dance can do up to 900 damage a hit versus artillery. I think I probably am gonna switch to them because they also don't need to build houses (and they are basicly the Huns of Age of Empires 3)
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Post by d on Oct 22, 2006 20:29:15 GMT -4
I can see where You would be interested in the Sioux. They are the Huns!
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Post by mrniceguy on Oct 31, 2006 23:57:13 GMT -4
granted i was playing against a computer and then 2 noobs, but i played a game using the aztecs and they weren't bad. they have fast units, strong units, and those crazy archer siege units, plus the whole warrior priest on the fire pit thing is cool. i like them and i haven't even explored the cards. i could see them as my second (finally) civ. any objections?
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 1, 2006 17:38:42 GMT -4
I would LOVE to see what D and I could do to the Aztecs... Nothing strong/fast enough to stop bombards jans and orps, Oh God.
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Post by pcups on Nov 1, 2006 19:13:44 GMT -4
too bad they would only need 2 types of units to beat your entire army. Buti m not the aztecs so discuss this with nick and jake.
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 1, 2006 22:16:44 GMT -4
Good luck trying to stop an orp raid or coming up with enough power to stop an army of janies and bombards coming down your throat without instant dopples and ruyters at your disposal. I would LOVE to see Jake and Nick come up with a solution for this... we'll test it.
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Post by pcups on Nov 2, 2006 13:24:10 GMT -4
well if nick and jake plan right, whicht they wont, its not hard. Eagle runners for the orps and jags and arrow knights for the bombards Arrow knights have more ranged than bombards Eagle runners are almost as fast as orps D and Ben = Owned, now this is just assuming that some one who actually know how to use the aztecs plays you. Which wont happen
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 2, 2006 16:15:03 GMT -4
If you are THAT confident in them, then bring it on bitches. Your build speed for all of those units is tumultuous! Keep in mind that Ruyters are a hell of a lot better at dealing with Orps and Bombards than any of those shitty Aztec units... and they LOSE to bombards/jans per pop. You might be tempted to try skull knights which build every 20ish seconds (is it?) but believe me, there's nothing I love more than 25 unprotected peasants all in one place for a civ that can rebuild them quickly and has a stagnant economy because of it. Your counter units? Maybe not... that's like trying to stop French ponies and Spahis with Halberds. Yeah it SHOULD work, but without the speed/range/build speed to stop the raid in time, you've already lost half your town. Oh yeah, then you should try sending all that infantry into the bombards... that is... IF they can get past the jans. Owned? Riiiiiight. Let's give it a try D. And Patrick, we'll let YOU be the Aztecs and see how you can deal with it.
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Post by pcups on Nov 2, 2006 20:26:12 GMT -4
You might want to learn something about a civ before you make your self sound stupid. aztecs can have 14 war huts and 12 noble huts. I dont give a shit how slow they are. Skull knights build every 9.8 seconds.
Jags have 2x against heavy infranty and 3x vs calvary, have fun trying to ge to the arrow knights with 30 ranged that take down your bombards, its not that hard to hit in run. Jags have 4.5 Speed. I think you forget (somehow) that it is a 2v2. So one person can build lets say 40 eagle warriors (6.0 speed) and build 59 jags, while the other builds 35 archer knights and 29 jags.
Good argument ben...
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Post by pcups on Nov 2, 2006 20:34:23 GMT -4
Oh yea something else to make you look stupid. Aztecs have the most farm/plantation upgrades in the game. I count 11 good upgrades (6 cards and 5 upgrades at mill) and 7 gold upgrades. I dont give a shit if i dont have factories. And go ahead raid my town with the 5 orps you get through the eagle warriors. You might get 10 peasants. Which i will just build back with the 10 warrior priest dancing on my fire pit. Fuck, i will ust my warrior priest to kill the orps
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Post by d on Nov 2, 2006 23:26:20 GMT -4
I was curious, were you planning on putting your jags in front of the archer knights where my bombards would blow them away (think Jake and redcoats) or were you going to put them behind the archer knights so my jans could easily melee the archer knights as well as bombard them and then attack the jags.
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 3, 2006 0:05:40 GMT -4
Use all your cards for economy? Great, your units will suck even more than they already do. Use them for military? Might help but when you need to devote 25 peasants (probably 50% of your total PCups) to the fire pit and the rest to your farms... that doesn't leave much room for too much else. You don't get a thousand peasants and your firepit requires the use of population that our factories don't. Awww shucks.
In the past, the only civs that were able to stop my orp raids well were the Dutch and the Portuguese... EVERYONE else can't do it. The Spanish are tricky but those rodeleros just don't have the speed, range, and firepower to stop me fast enough. Why? Your wall will already be down and you won't have ONE of them dead, and by then it's way to late... even if you somehow manage to micro your eagle warriors well enough, I will be able to kill AT LEAST one peasant before you can kill the orp (Peasants die in three hits), and since the ops are faster, I will have tons of fun doing a little hit and run myself.
Also, a little math might work in your favor too. Vet Ops have 250 HP and 33 attack (20 + 13 trample) vs. infantry and vet. Eagle warriors have 180 HP and 27 (34 ranged) attack vs. cavalry. So the 40 eagle warriors will be enough to stop 50 ops? Tim usually needs at least 50 Rutter's to stop them quickly enough and they are tons better. They are quite similar to cavalry archers which SUCK at stoping my orp raids... only I can outrun these little bastards too. Try again PCups.
Oh yeah, you did try. Archer knights have 12.5 attack against bombards (75% ranged resistance) so even with 35 of them, they will not take out a bombard in one round! Bad news for you because after their first shot, the bombards get their turn and you just lost them all! Oh no! Bombards have 28 range and they have 30 so after their first shot, they will not have time to run away because the bombards are already there. Oops. Good luck hitting and running because if somehow you DO survive the first round (which you won't against the bombards 500 siege damage) they only have 3.8 speed vs. the bombards 3.5! Lord help us! Have you ever tried to hit and run with culvarins? It doesn't work and they have even MORE range. What happens if the extra orps I have are thrown into the mix? Even more dead archers for you... but I think the ops will be busy cleaning the fuck out of your town while you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Wait, maybe the next round, the bombards will direct their fire to the jaguars... BOOM! They die in one shot too! Damn, now what's left to stop the bombards, a whole lot of nothing? Better yet, what if I threw in some strelets and grenadiers into the mix in lue of some orps... oh no! You have nothing in that mix that is very good against (light) infantry do you? That would really suck because I can get them instantly. Bummer.
Not to mention that you've already changed your argument from using "2 units to beat us" to three now... but that's OK, you can keep wishing. We'll put it to the test and see how heavily you get PWNED P_Cups.
How about this: We will do a 30 minute Treaty so that we have time to get bombards/skull knights/factories/etc. I'll even let you PICK your ally and design your deck specifically to beat us. At that point we will both have our economy set and see if your military is really better... without fast building units, advanced arsenal, and factories. All I can say is "Good Luck P_Cups" and good luck finding numbers to back up your claims next time.
Challenge is ON.
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