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Post by pcups on Nov 12, 2007 20:19:33 GMT -4
Actually i will have to go with C ben, but i wont tell you why Oh shit ben, you gotta check your messages.
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 12, 2007 22:14:44 GMT -4
I sent you a message back!
But no fear P_Cups... my flamethrowers can kill those pesky war club in two seconds, and it takes three war clubs to beat a samurai so I'm not worried (Test it!). The best thing is, the Sioux couldn't even send minutemen against me and really have a hard time recovering after they lose their town to an army of vicious Asians!
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Post by pcups on Nov 13, 2007 0:00:37 GMT -4
It won't matter, my army is too fast for you to react! And like I said, I wouldn't be by my self, my specialty isn't the sams, its your army. Its extremely weak VS melee damage. Your flames might have 4.25 speed but my warclubs with a war chief has 5.8 or or so. If you move to chase, my whole army will be waiting, and my dutch ally will take advantage of the downtime by picking of sams. You can destroy my town center if need be, because I don't need it! My 33 war clubs are independant of my TC so destroy it, you will lose more units because the skirms will be picking off your sams. We can already say that your disciples are useless at this point because of their weakness to heavy infantry! And luckily i have no houses to destroy! or any other buildings for that matter, except my war hut which i can easily hide on a map. Its location doen't matter!
Let the debate continue!
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 13, 2007 1:48:48 GMT -4
Fundamental problem with your idea: You have absolutely no way of killing those flamethrowers. None. Let's do the math. We arrive head to head. The skirmishers will have three vollies to try to kill as many sams as possible. Yes, only three vollies. One because they out range the flames a little bit. Before they can even reload once, the flames are them and have them 5 of them dead in two seconds (120 siege damage in that time) and and most of them will get a second shot. The flames then continue to burn them before the dutch can micro around it and by the time their third shot arrives, enough of them are dead to make the Dutch army insignificant. If you are foolish enough to try to rush me with the war clubs, I kill 5 them every two seconds as well, if they are lucky enough to get through the remaining sams. This is why the war clubs lose: This is the problem P_Cups: The war clubs are good against NONE of our units (they lose per pop and cost to both sams and flames) and therefore there is absolutely no resistance to me going in and torching those fucking skirms before they can do a damn thing to the army. They won't be picking off sams as you suggested... they will be dead before you even have even one flamethrower dead. We'll call the wolves and disciples a wash because they really are... they are both just cannon fotter.
I'm also having a hard time believing your war club theory:
5 Flames and 7 Diciples - 2180 resources 20 Skirms - 2300 resources 17 Samurai - 3000 resources ***33 War Clubs and 12 wolves - 4000 resources***
Even without Sioux houses, I'm calling the BS now. It's just not possible P_Cups. Feel free to upload a, IN-GAME screen shot to prove it without the aid of major treasures or maps. Even if it IS somehow possible to outproduce the Chinese, Japanese, and Dutch with the shitty Sioux economy, if our armies break even, you still lose.
EDIT: However, I will not make any conclusions with Certainty until we have a little test! Find a Dutch player like Jake who can just pump out skirms and nothing else and we'll put them head to head this Friday!
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Post by pcups on Nov 13, 2007 13:14:56 GMT -4
Lucky for you ben, i took a screen shot yesterday. It's on great plains so the only real treasures I got were those small gold ones and a food one. I took the screen shot 4 seconds too late because i forgot but it didn't affect the outcome of my army. And I'm glad you don't understand how my units can destroy yours, its not my problem. I'm more accustomed to taking out cannons and skirms with pike men (ask tim). It's going to be much easier with fast war clubs . Oh, i forgot to select the war clubs, but you can still count them. EDIT: Notice that the treasure guardians can help with the battle, and I build my wolves first. This gives me the opportunity to get WHAT EVER TREASURE I WANT. Making this faster by 20 seconds, if I find a juicy one . Notice that french peasant I didn't get. EDIT#2: Sorry, but ideas keep popping up in my head. I did this on great plains where i only start out with 100 or 200 wood. MOST maps, I start out with 200 or 300. This just means I can put more peasants on food to keep production going longer.
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Post by Jake P. on Nov 13, 2007 13:46:19 GMT -4
Hehe i think pat and i could stop it. You have a fatal flaw ben. If you try to chase my skirms down with the flames pat will own them before you kill too many. And tims sams are way to slow to catch my skirms. So all I have to do is micro a bit and out range you 18 to 5 (18 - 0 for the sams) and i pwn.
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Post by Jake P. on Nov 13, 2007 13:50:28 GMT -4
HAHAHA The google ad is Masashi Samurai Swords - Homemade functional Katanas
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Post by punkybruster on Nov 13, 2007 14:18:54 GMT -4
"way too slow to catch [the] skirms" I disagree. Skirms (as of patch 1.1) have 4 speed. Everything in our rush is faster than them. Even our artillery! While the difference is small (0.5), outrunning is not an effective strat.
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Post by pcups on Nov 13, 2007 14:28:14 GMT -4
True Tim, but there is the little trick of leaving one unit behind to melee your group, so all of your sams slow down. Its common, silly, and still very effective. If you don't kill the unit, it will keep meleeing your army, if you do, you have to slow down in order to kill it . Thats 1v1 101 right there . Tim, I have solved our problem with our team strat. I can now age up with the Indians at 4:30 or less with 15 peasants + trickle card. See Indians!
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Post by Jake P. on Nov 13, 2007 15:33:03 GMT -4
Oh on a side note tim, don't use the 3rd age faster sams card...makes them really expensive.
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 13, 2007 17:02:46 GMT -4
I was wrong about ONE thing P_Cups, and I'll let you find out what it was. This is with the same food treasure and beaver that you had mentioned. DED. The next batch of 5 flames are ready at 8:30 too. Patrick, what you haven't accepted yet is that the WORST type of unit that you can use to counter this army is heavy infantry, especially ones that drop like flies (aka: war clubs). They lose BADLY to both sams and flames. Use your logic: you don't build infantry against artillary, especially artillery that has a 6x multiplier against you. The other thing is that it will be damn impossible for any significant number of your war clubs to even reach my flamethrowers because they have to battle through all the samuri that are doing splash damage to them. Even if your and Tim's armies break even... that leaves flames and diciples against whatever amount of skirms Jake has left. Oh yeah, and your armies cost more than ours do so if everything breaks even (which it won't), you guys are still down 1500-2000 resources. Also, let's not ignore the fact that I had 21 vills at 7:09 and you had 16 at 7:30. I never stop building them for a second... AND I have a wonder that is generating resources like a factory!
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Post by pcups on Nov 13, 2007 17:38:27 GMT -4
taunt 1
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Post by boorules60 on Nov 13, 2007 18:48:39 GMT -4
But if we end up working together on this rush, 5 flames, 17 sams, and 33 warclubs have a combined siege of 2630 per volley. DED...
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Post by pcups on Nov 13, 2007 21:14:20 GMT -4
Yea, thats decidedly the deadliest rush. I bet we could go 3 vs 4!
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Post by punkybruster on Nov 13, 2007 21:25:52 GMT -4
In the beginning... There was the jan gren rush. And D sayeth that thine enemies shalt lose. And the enemies did lose.
Thus the great commandment of ages was born: thou shalt build the best artillery (grens) and the best infantry (jans) and thou shalt be rewarded with bountiful slaughter of thine enemies.
But then cometh TWC. And super-slingshots. And early seige was king, and the puma rejoiceth.
And then cometh TAD. And with it, the flamethrower, and the samurai. But, question the people, doth the samurai supersede the jan?
And the tests sayeth: no.
Twenty-five jans shalt be victorious against sixteen samurai and the daimyo.
Sayeth the people, "How shalt we rush?" and answereth the ages, "rush with twenty-five jans, five flamethrowers, and eight of MY diciples at 7:15"
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