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Post by boorules60 on May 27, 2008 19:27:02 GMT -4
I had an Ottoman, French, and Japanese on my team and it was our goal to drain the other team of their resources and push them out and win since they had a Russia and Iro on their team. I wanted to be completely sure that our team was OK. Overkill? Yeah, I had 150,000 resources at the end of 1:20 game time but what can ya do? Those settler wagons just keep hauling in the bacon.
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Post by pcups on May 27, 2008 21:14:47 GMT -4
There is no point to that many resources when you could be making units with them. Resources don't fight. I remember when I started playing ages 2 and was the Indians. I had like 50,000 wood one game and no food and tim was like "What the fuck are you doing!?".
Might as well save your self the time and win the game sooner. I have always found that deleting villes is more beneficial because of the extra pop it frees up. And with all of the german units except for the skirmisher costing 2 or more pop, you need all you can handle.
EDIT: I thought of another good example. As the sioux I always have the lowest amount of resources. I only have around 20,000 food and 7,000 gold through out the whole game. But I win most of my games as the sioux, not through economic might, but through military.
EDIT #2: This is coming from a 1v1 player who sees no reason to waste time and effort. I think the different scenarios have given me a different outlook on resource management. It's like the deck I made you Ben for Germans in sup, I gave you one resource card.
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Post by d on May 28, 2008 15:41:34 GMT -4
THE problem with the Chinese is getting enough shipments. So, I'm going to suggest they get 2 more shipments. Just what they need. Right.
JB suggests land reform for more xp. A rice paddy xp goes from 80 to 160.
With land grab and advanced rice paddy, the cost of a rice paddy goes from 400 wood to 120 wood. A Chinese vill can build a rice paddy in about 3 secs with these cards. Here's the punch line, what if the Chinese built all the mills and plantations except one each (a research one) for everyone? The Cinese get a lot of xp, and everyone gets cheap mills and plantations. The other civs seem to have effective ways to make up for the lost xp.
The Chinese could also build everyone's initial walls. I need to look at building the deck and getting the shipment order right. This is obviously for team treaty. "I need wood."
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Post by boorules60 on Jun 1, 2008 12:35:48 GMT -4
I guess now the only thing to think of is whether or not you're spending more than you're getting. You would need to spend two shipments in order to build enough stuff to give you... two more shipments. Could be a problem if it's more trouble than it's worth. The other thing to consider is the order of the shipments. If you need to send these two cards early, you may end up needing to send vital resource gathering or other eco shipments later which might not be so good either. Also, building all the walls for your team AND all the farms and plantations is going to take a ton of time away from your economy too. Worth thinking about anyway...
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Post by pcups on Jun 1, 2008 13:09:42 GMT -4
Guys, I know this sounds dumb, But I really wanna try and use the iros for treaty. I have tried before and have always failed. I'll try using fur trade and such, worth a shot huh?
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Post by d on Jun 1, 2008 13:53:28 GMT -4
The Chinese get a shipment for every 1500 xp or every 10 rice paddies. Most civs need 12-15 farms or planations. Takes one vill 1-2 mins tops. With 3 man teams. about 40 rice paddies are needed total or 4 shipments are obtained at he cost of 2. It's not like I'll be missing some crucial cards.
By starting a wall from both ends with a vill, 10 vills get 5 layers. The cards speed the construction of the walls making it more efficient. Doesn't require much micro.
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Post by pcups on Jun 1, 2008 21:50:46 GMT -4
D, the amount of xp it takes to get a shipment increases really fast. So you would have the build the paddies right off the bat, or its a no go.
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Post by d on Jun 1, 2008 23:43:06 GMT -4
Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it more carefully. But I'm trying to go from 12 to 15 or 16 shipments when the treaty breaks so that's the total amount of xp required. B's right if the shipments come late, it will cost a reduction of resources. The rice paddies should be done around 15 to 19 mins. At 120 wood for a farm or plantation, we're saving resources as well.
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Post by punkybruster on Jun 2, 2008 1:00:23 GMT -4
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Post by d on Jun 2, 2008 10:23:04 GMT -4
Here it is. The Chinese normally will have 12 shipments when the treaty breaks. With a 3v3 game, he could build 28 (2 allies need 14 paddies each) additional paddies at 160 xp each or 4480 extra xp. For China 13th shipment is 1607, 14th is 1845 and 15th is 2125 xp. Or a gain of about 2 1/2 shipments. A slight gain over the 2 shipments needed for the cheap paddies.
4v4 needs 42 more paddies (3 times 14). 6720 more xp, 3 1/2 shipments. 1 1/2 extra shipments.
There is time saved in building. A paddy builds in 3 secs with 1 vill. Also walls build about 25-30 % faster. Resources are saved. 120 wood for a farm or plantation. Everybody gets 4 or 5 layers of great walls which are 50% stronger than normal improved walls. The shipments come early enough to be useful (are availible when people need farms and plantations.)
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Post by pcups on Jun 2, 2008 18:30:23 GMT -4
I just thought of something brilliant!
Do Euro settlers gather food from rice paddies with out moving? If so, this cold be an even bigger advantage. Remember, the max amount of villes you want on farm is 7, because after that they begin to bump into each other. I don't remember if ES fixed this problem, but probably not.
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Post by boorules60 on Jun 2, 2008 20:02:26 GMT -4
boorules60: Taunt 1 boorules60: Taunt 1 boorules60: Taunt 1
I think this is a very good idea. This is not only more shipments before the treaty for the Chinese which is important, but many saved vill seconds from building them AND gathering as P_Cups mentioned, as well as saved wood which can be critical on some maps. 40 Cheap rice patties could save the team 10-20 thousand wood since each person would be saving about 300 wood per farm and 700 wood per plantation. Obviously, everyone would still need to build one of each to do the research, but that's no big deal.
The only little setback would be that obviously the other 3 players would be losing out on some XP because of this. Also, the Chinese would need to remove two shipments from their deck (such as a few of the later unit upgrades) which would only matter late late game.
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Post by pcups on Jun 3, 2008 9:56:41 GMT -4
I know that If i played the germans I would not be interested in this. I need the xp and there is no shortage in resources.
However if I were the sioux I would gladly accept this because I need to save wood!
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Post by d on Jun 3, 2008 14:38:57 GMT -4
Yes. If the Chinese are with civs that don't need much xp or shipments, this works well. But, otherwise you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul. European civs like Spanish or Turks could work. Native americans or asian civs could work. Punky likes Spanish because Chinese get very fast building CKNs and Pikemen. Pcups and Boorules like Iroquis and their 3 pop cannons with the Chinese team engineering school. A lot to consider.
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Post by boorules60 on Jun 4, 2008 22:00:50 GMT -4
Agreed. The Germans really need all the XP they can get. The Russians and Ports probably COULD afford it, but it's a little shaky. PCups is right, I as the Aztecs could not only afford all the XP you'd ever want since I usually have 20 shipments by the time the treaty breaks, but I'd even reward you with 3 vills, team medicine, and... team wood cutting. I'll take that trade. Here are some new 4v4 treaty teams to consider using China:
Chinese, Spanish, German, Dutch (Killer IMO) Chinese, Russians, Iro, Japs (Also good potential)
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