Ruyters really are the crappiest unit in the game.

[pcups]

Ok so tim i think you will find this interesting, most people didnt believe it at first, I DIDNT BELIEVE IT AT FIRST. Go into scenario editor and compete a ruyter against every, single unit, there is on there, in melee that is, and see what happens.

THEY LOSE, they lose to envoys, vills, even cassadors, im not so sure about strelets. no one mentioned strelets. Ruyters melee is the worst way to go tim, always put them on range.

Heres the link, the guy kinda sounds like hes on crack until everyone slowly realizes that he is telling the truth.

www.aoe3.heavengames.com

go down to forums and then general discussion. And its there, labled as "the dutch". It seems ruyters arent raelly worth it to build, i would say hussars and skirms.

You know when tim says thats its more effective to put half on melee half on ranged, well he is effectively wasting half of his army.

In my personal opinion ruyters are terrible and tim should just use them lightly instead of massing them, since masssing them wasnt the best idea before 1.08, its an even worse idea now that light infrantry got the edge.

[pcups]

Oh yea, this probably applys to calvary archers, i think they have the same or a little bit more hand attack.

Oh yea, when i say beat i ALSO mean cost effectively.

[boorules60]

Speaking from one who has based most of his strategy around heavy cavalry (French and Orps) Ruyters are really the only thing that worry me during a raid. That guy had some good points but he fails to realize that they are the fastest unit in the game on land and can really halt heavy cavalry which means expensive loses for us. Patrick wouldn't have much of an issue with this because he has fast heavy infantry (Rodeleros and now Dopples) but the ruyters are fucking impossible to chase down and can hit and run against anything that doesn't outrange them. aka: if microed they can kill all heavy infantry and cavalry, as well as waste a lot of expensive artillary per pop and cost. I agree that he should keep them at range, but sometimes if you have a ton of them, if you keep all of them at range, not all of them can get around the people to attack. Putting some on melee allows all of them to attack which is better than wasting some of them who can't attack. However, I agree that Tim should build more variety of units, and I think he's realizing that too. A 6 heavy cannon + 100 Ruter combo or something close to that is a really pain in the ass to deal with.

In other news, I have given up on the Russians. I just keep losing games to people I should beat, and I figure a change in strategy will help me get going again... Im thinking Spanish... but I might take them in a new direction. Heh heh.

[pcups]

Well i think they are fine at range, but i still disagree with you at putting them at melee, if envoys are going to beat them...

And why are you giving up the russians, and what dirrection are you thinking about for the spanish?

[punkybruster]

Patrick you douche, you didnt understand my ruyter melee tactic.
First: i would only melee things with range armor. Dragoons have 30% and cannons have 75%. I lose up to 3/4 of my potential unless i melee at least some.
Second: Ruyters have 14 base range attack and 7 base melee. The melee is twice as fast. Do the math. (little hint: its the same).
Third: Since my range attack and melee attack are essentially the same, my choice relies on my opponent. Cannons, skirms (before the patch), some dragoons, melee when possible. Heavy cavalry, heavy infantry, stay at range because its more efficient or their melee would result in an attack bonus against me.
P.S. Pat have you ever successfully stopped an orp raid all by yourself?

[pcups]

Calvary never really bothered me tim, and it never will.

I said it was more effecient to let ruyters just attack at range, its stupid to melee them when envoys can kill them, if you wanna melee my cannons, have fun, there will be a shit load of dopples or rodeleros waiting for you, or cassadors... The reason why you lose so many units pergame is because you use them stupidly, i saw you hit and run halbs on the 4v4 that we lost, that was good, you got a lot of them. And while melee, slightly worked before on skirms, it cant now because its 1.5 even on melee.

And im not a douche, i simply stated that ruyters were overrated on their melee attack, with hussars and skirms to supplement though, they have a wonderful ranged attack.

[boorules60]

In Patrick's defense though he HAS stopped an orp raid... mostly with those pesky dragoons or dopples that he can spam on me when I get up. But fortunately, Patrick doesn't like to protect his factories very well so I can usually get at least one if I can get into his base.

[pcups]

Yes, i do normally see ben, but thats when hes an INCH to far ahead of me, and unlike tim i just kinda leave my factories where ever, its a weakness of mine, actually my whole base is kinda everywhere, stupid i know but usually i am mircro the battles too much to care.

Yes ben does get an average of one factory a game . but im slowly learning my lesson.

[Jake P.]

Ok i have a question...did you try to put ruyters up against envoys or did you just trust mr. joe schmoe on the internet?

[pcups]

haha! see i told you that you wouldnt believe it, go ahead jake, make my day!