MAJOR TAD PATCH 1.01!!!

[pcups]

Hey guys, I know we haven't played sup in a while but these are major changes, THERE ARE A LOT! Remember, they don't test for Treat so don't think in those terms, although this does effect treat a lot!



www.agecommunity.com/ypatch1_01.aspx

[pcups]

This patch has a lot of implications for the Germans, Spanish, Dutch... well, just about everyone.

Germans are now back in action with the return of the Uhlan! They still have their slow start but at least I get my ponies back. They made Cross bows weaker, which may weaken my German strat a little, but not by much. I still have uhlans to distract an opponent now.

Dutch, with half the build XP will be slower now (thank god), its been a while since they have had a nerf.

I guess ES was sick and tired of no one using the Spanish so they made sure that no one would REALLY use them.

SILK ROADS GOT NERFED!!!!!!!!!!! I am a happy camper now. I have been waiting my whole ages 3 career for this. But now ottomans are a little more interesting, witht he XP bonus from the Mosque.

They basically raped all of the natives with their fire pit uses. Luckily for me, I do not rely on the fire pit that much for treaty with Sioux and not at all in supremacy.

Sorry Bien, no more eagle runner knights for you, thank holy jesus!

Japs are looking stronger but more defensive now!

Anyway, give me your thoughts!

[Jake P.]

I wasn't able to do all the math but it looks like our treaty otto strat got nerfed pretty badly. 100 less wood from crates and I didn't really do the math out but it looks like the ottos lost villager build speed. Umm scratch that...its still a total of +18 points to build speed. But I agree with you pat, the ottos are now a bit more interesting.

They really did slow the dutch down. Now that churches are half xp, and banks are half xp, and I feel like there was something else that was half xp too. Starting with 6 vills instead of 7 seems like taking a step back to me. Didn't they do the oposite in an earlier patch? Although you could argue that they needed to be balanced again to fit the all the changes they made to everybody else.

I am so happy they nerfed the asigaru musketeer. Thank you!!! It was fun to use them but terrible to be on the other side of.

Speaking of steps back...the aztec war chief is back to his original x2 xp aura.

All in all there are some major changes here that will make both sup and treat games much more noticeably different than previous patches. It should be fun.

[boorules60]

Well, I'm not sure whether to be pissed off or a little happy, so I'll start by commenting on the civs that I play:

Russians - Seriously, there was no need to nerf the fort hop that badly. 75% would have been fine, but 50 is just stupid. I think it now makes more sense to just get the building build-speed card instead since that gives 65% but that wouldn't help my walls or TCs. The strelet/musk changes will help in sup though.

Aztecs - At first I was furious, but after looking things over, it could actually be OK. But if I can note, the Aztecs are probably the hardest civ to play in the game. Their units and eco are so fucked up and different from everyone else that they really do try to fuck us Aztec players as hard as they can. Anyway, the fire pit nerf actually HELPS my WP's! They'll be dancing at an extra 5% and I never use villagers on the FP anyway. The age up nerfs against the farms/plants and WH/NH kinda sucks but it will save me some wood so I can't complain too much yet. I have no fucking idea why they changed the Jag bonuses; it might help actually my infantry stoping problems but that was a bit dumb. I guess the coyote and mace boost compensates for the -2 eagle range. However, the new bonus against LI is going to make LI OP again, so get ready for more LI spamming! Wow, and I thought they fixed this...

China - To tell you the truth, this really isn't as bad as it looks, and they basically nerfed them in sup and boosted them in TRT. Yeah, they made deciples and Hand Mortars a moot point but the other changes are fair IMO. Pikes, Swords, and Keshiks are actually better now, and obviosuly ChukuNus and Arques are going to be fucking OP with 3X against LC AND HI with the card. Good luck stopping them now. The age-up politicians are now better too. Oh, and I'm a bit sad about the Manchus...

Other civs:

Ottos - Silk Roads is fucked. It now NEVER makes sense to use it, ever. You would need 5000 team resource crates to make it worthwhile which would probably only happen in a 4v4, and the effect would be delayed which hurts even more. It's a waste. The lower starting wood kinda hurts but it might make more sense to build an early mosque AND/OR TP and do your vill thing earlier since it doesn't delay your 2nd age time at all... almost like 1st age medicine for 200 wood!

Dutch - This nerf really only hurts people who are using the Dutch the way they're supposed to be used. This change will have little effect on the puma rush (less than 100 total resources since we're only going to be short a vill for 120 seconds). The WC XP thing might hurt a little bit, but I'm raking in shipments quickly anyway so it's no big thing. Actually Tim, we might want to consider using the "Founder Big Button Tech." That increases my WC aura by 2X and gives him a healing effect!!! It's only 50/50/50 and it could mean an extra shipment or two AND units that stay alive longer! Oooo, but it's my firepit BB so that might not work unless I start with one... on maps like Indochina! LOL! Let's give this a test before our next SS.

Spain/Iroquois/Sioux - Ouch, that sucks hard balls. Never use them again.

Ports - Beware, Beware, the ports are growing more OP by the minute. They could be nearly unstoppable in treaty now with the boost to Hussars and Cassadores.

Brits/Germans - Who cares? Might help in sup a little bit but I can't see it making a damn bit of difference in many games except for those fucking annoying Uhlan Raids.

[punkybruster]

I wonder what implications this has for the puma?
The vill for coin trade isn't too bad for the dutch; since the TC is idle i'll just make another vill. Jags RAPE infantry - perhaps a jag puma combo would be better than a straight puma rush now. The XP bounty just sucks.
Since ben doesn't use vills on the FP, the wp's gain vs the dance loss breaks even.

P.S. China and Ports will RAPE in treaty. No doubt.

[punkybruster]

Oh and doubling the multiplier against mercs = DED hatamoto. QED, this patch fucks japan.

[boorules60]

One thing I've noticed though and maybe you guys have too, these patches have really taken away from the uniqueness of each civ and tried their damnedest to make them all the same. EX)

Aztec - They used to be a thriving anti-cav civ with a solid eco, but weak against infantry. The patches have changed that around.

Sioux - They used to be a fast moving civ with some nice animal units to make up for their shitty second age infantry. The patches have changed that around.

Otto - They used to be a slow economy civ with strong units expensive units that made them different. The patches have changed that around. They are the BEST example of all.

Ports - They used to be a great boom and naval civ with weak, crappy, melee units. The patches have changed that around.

Dutch - They used to be a great turtle civ with banks and second age shipments to balance their low mid-game vill numbers. The patches have changed that around.

Germans - They used to be a great merc civ with not-so cost effective units to make up for their nice merc strats. The patches have changed that around.

Russians - They used to be a great fast building civ with high numbers of units and buildings to make up for their shitty units and weak economy. The patches have changed THAT around. Another great example.

Need I go on? Every civ used to have tons of things that were unique about them that people just kept bitching about the things that actually made each civ special and fun. Everything got changed to make the civs more balanced true, but it's turned into a game where basically all the civs are the same. Really, look at all the examples.

Think about it, all skirmisher units are the same. Nearly all HC units are the same. All HI units are the same. All artillery units are the same. Nearly all LC units are the same. When will it end, when we all play the British?

They've made some good changes over the years when they've changed things across the board (unit build time, RC vs arty, LI nerf, HC boost) but instead of changing individual strong civs to make them worse by more like the other civs, they should change them to further exploit their weaknesses and make them more different!!!

And seriously, ES, if you change something (Uhlans, Aztec WC, XBows, Dutch Eco, etc), DON'T change it back. It just makes you look like a fucking idiot who forgot why you changed it in the first place.

[pcups]

I agree Ben, did you notice why they made no changes to French? It's because thats what they are aiming for. It is stupid in my Opinion. And what you were saying about ES changing what they do. Well, they said last year that they were getting out of the business of NERFING civs. It made them more unlikeable and ruined the fun. And look what they did....

Tim, this patch fucks Japan in treaty, well not really, it just makes them beatable. If you noticed their shrine rate is DOUBLED!!! This means in sup they can easily turtle and boom!

[boorules60]

Exactly right. Look at the ottomans now. Jans and abus guns are now nerfed to be nothing more than decent muskets and skirms, and they've altered their initial "rush" resources and compensated by lowering the church and vill production costs. It eliminates everything that made them unique: Helped their boom and killed their rush. Japan is a great example too. The shrine thing helps their eco which was suffering but the musket nerf kills what was basically their best unit. The Russians too have gotten some eco help (in the past) at the expense of some of their unit massing power like forts. I mean, it is true that these changes have helped balance the civs, but it's done so by making them all the same, not by making them all more different. Oh well, it's still a fun game.

[pcups]

Hey, I have a proposition for you guys... Do you just want to NOT install the patch? I mean, we only play lan anymore so why not just keep it the same? And if one day there are 3 of us and we decide to play, we can down load it? What do you say?

[boorules60]

OMG! We're all on at once? You guys wanna play tonight?

[pcups]

By they way Ben, I am posting some of your comments on an ages haven , I made a thread about how ages is losing its uniqueness amongst the civs and already I have 2 guys FROM ES jumping down my throat . But, you brought up a lot of the good points that I don't think they can argue.

[punkybruster]

Amen to the disappointment regarding civ unification. Ages 3 is quickly becoming the ages 2 of this era; except for one unit per civ, every civ was practically the same. Identical ecos, identical units. Indeed, this move is fundamentally regressive to the point of Lord of the Realm, where pikemen were the only HI that anyone used and crossbows were the only ranged unit that anyone used. All in all, I find more variation among the THREE starcraft civs than the FOURTEEN age3 civs.
Age of empires is all about finding creative solution to problems within the bounds of the game. The beauty is FINDING and CREATING a strategy to defeat an earlier one that was thought to be transcendent. I can only think of two or thee things I would have patched since the beginning of the game. (Agents, CDB build time, and the build time proportional to cost fix.) Fundamentally, ES disagrees with my philosophy - they favor removal of any present power rather than the discovery of the exploitation of the weakness that any strategy inherently has.
Yes, the game will still be fun, but I fear that games may get staler and staler without the depth that variation provides.

[pcups]

Taunt 1

[punkybruster]

I think the patch is out, because I went to sign in ESO last night, and it started downloading. I canceled out, figuring I wanted to be compatible with you guys, assuming you want to hold out as long as possible before installing it.