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Micro
Feb 20, 2007 1:41:45 GMT -4
Post by boorules60 on Feb 20, 2007 1:41:45 GMT -4
With the exception of a few new strategies that seem to be coming along and only work in particular circumstances, we seem not to be coming up with a lot of new stuff to make us all better players. I watched a compilation on YouTube of a 'Kahn' Clan tournament, and what really separates them is their incredible micro... simply unreal. Some of us are much better at micro than others so it's a tough thing to teach, but it can turn the tide in almost ANY close battle. Here are some examples that I can think:
1) Light inf/cav - Obviously, ranged units are the key units to micro. This is NOT just a hit and run thing. It's important to know exactly how many of your units it takes to kill another unit. For example, how many Xbows/strelets does it take to kill a jan in age 2? If I have an army of 30 and it only takes 15, I would be better off dividing them into two groups and killing two jans at once... basically raises your attack by 100%. At the same time, if you only use one strelet per jan, it will take too fucking long to kill them and you just lost.
2) Unit formations - There is a heel of a lot more to this than most people realize. D mentions that his jans are great as a meat shield... and since they are sometimes used to protect horse cannons, it is more important to use them as a meat shield than to get kills. Therefore, he should put them on cover mode if there are lots of ranged units so that they do less damage to him. I do the same thing if I know which puma the TC will shoot... allowing it to take another hit before it dies. Moreover, if you are raiding someone in the second or third age, you are much better off putting your cavalry on trample JUST as you get near the peasants. Even though you will take more damage, you will also DO more damage to groups of peasants and maybe even get an extra kill or two. Then put them on normal mode to run away.
3) Retreating - ONLY retreat when your army is faster than that of your enemy and when you think that it is more beneficial to run than the amount of damage you would do when staying. We found that sacrificing the initial army of pumas is foolish! Instead, wait for the reinforcements, are your army will be that much harder to stop next game. Also, sometimes sacrificing one or more units is the way to go. Noobs like Josh and Pat Braasch often tell an entire army of ponies to attack ONE unit of an army that is running away. If you know that they are coming, have that unit stop and fight while the others run away. They will be out of his LOS by the time he realizes what happened.
Any other micro ideas (other than firepit micro which I've now learned)?
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Micro
Feb 20, 2007 21:27:08 GMT -4
Post by pcups on Feb 20, 2007 21:27:08 GMT -4
The last bit of micro like ben said is beneficial for peasants, Usually leaving a trail of 3 peasants behind lets you save the other 7 or so. So its either 3 or all.
Building micro is also important. When i have towers in a 1v1 game or even if i DONT have towers (germans) i have to micro my hero/tc. I will shoot one guy with my TC and then let the explorer kill him the rest of the way. Since the explorer shoots faster than the TC it saves time.
Ben was talking about unit groups, which is really important. On the 2v3 Ben and Tim had a hard time killing my dragoons and cassadors. Tim kept bringing ruyters and HA and ben kept bringing everything so i need to switch which units were in front/side/back. Since i had no viable meet shield, i had to keep moving. Unit groups helped me do this, while i just double clicked its the same thing.
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Micro
Feb 20, 2007 22:47:24 GMT -4
Post by d on Feb 20, 2007 22:47:24 GMT -4
Jans can shoot, melee, defend and stand ground but not cover - oops.
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Micro
Feb 20, 2007 23:13:01 GMT -4
Post by pcups on Feb 20, 2007 23:13:01 GMT -4
yea, i think only melee infrantry have cover.
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Micro
Feb 21, 2007 0:28:10 GMT -4
Post by boorules60 on Feb 21, 2007 0:28:10 GMT -4
Yeah, that works too... I was just speaking in general terms about situations where a something like that could really come in handy. Obviously the half melee half ranged thing was a great idea and we should really try to optimize that more. Tim has a lot of trouble against cassadores and strelets with his ruyters, but he is 30-60% better off if he can melee most of them even though they still have a bonus. I try melee attacking them with my coyote runners but the cassadores still win.
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Micro
Feb 21, 2007 17:59:28 GMT -4
Post by pcups on Feb 21, 2007 17:59:28 GMT -4
Yea, cassadors are a problem for the aztecs just because of their long range.
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Micro
Apr 8, 2007 12:10:21 GMT -4
Post by pcups on Apr 8, 2007 12:10:21 GMT -4
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Micro
Apr 8, 2007 19:54:26 GMT -4
Post by boorules60 on Apr 8, 2007 19:54:26 GMT -4
Wow, who ever heard of a French player that won a game without ever building a horse! That guy is nuts, and we can learn a lot from him. First, keeping peasants from gathering resources is the most important part of a rush in the end. Also, the Dutch guy divided his units into two groups which was far more effective. Also, his TC was always doing something and he only had about 10 seconds of idle shipment time total after they arrived. He also was an amazing judge of when he should fight and when he should run away and regroup... it is never worth it to just say fuck it and lose an army.
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Micro
Apr 11, 2007 15:18:25 GMT -4
Post by boorules60 on Apr 11, 2007 15:18:25 GMT -4
I don't know if we've mentioned it yet, but microing you units in seige is equally as important. If you attacking with inf or cav... move them all up directly next to the building that you are seiging so that they don't need to walk around each other can can begin seiging right away. Also, if a building is almost dead, don't waste an entire round to finish off the 200 HP; move on to something else and just have a few units finish it up. This is especially important for cannons which take several seconds in between reloads... you don't need all 8 mortars to take down a house. It's also not a bad idea to shift click to task seige just as you would for units. I do this with orps all the time If I can't sit there and watch them every second.
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Micro
Nov 14, 2007 3:54:07 GMT -4
Post by boorules60 on Nov 14, 2007 3:54:07 GMT -4
If you guys have 15-20 minutes, please check out this link and click on the "Micro" topic. It gives videos of great ways to increase your micro ability, some of which you know and others you might not! Micro is the best way to make a normally weak army even stronger. Tim, I think we can take advantage of this against Pat and Jake! www.gamereplays.org/aoe3/task.php?nameid=twc_general_guides
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Micro
Nov 14, 2007 11:20:38 GMT -4
Post by Jake P. on Nov 14, 2007 11:20:38 GMT -4
Here's a handy micro tip that you might not think about. Sometimes its better not to put the max 50 units into a ctrl group. This goes along with what ben said about attacking a single unit. If you have ten cannons, don't put all ten in the same group. Its just a waste of fire power. Split them 5 and 5. You will be able to make much better use of them. You could have one group attack a building while the other group attacks the inf. Or have both attack the inf. The point here is flexibility. Don't LIMIT yourself to only one option! Same thing goes for things like battle field construction. Take seven jans and put them in a different ctrl group.This way you won't accidentally select them and never build your FB. Also, use the same few ctrl groups for the same unit counter. For example, I use groups 1-2 for light infantry/cavalry, groups 3 -4 as heavy infantry/cavalry, 5-6 as artillery. This takes one more thinking step out of the equation. All you need to do is memorize your groups and it becomes like second nature.
We used to think that this game was all about the numbers and in a way it is since thats what the rules of the game are based upon. But, I believe that this game is about superior micro and in order to do that you need to know the numbers (like ben said).
Good post guys. This is a must read. I hope we all learn something here.
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Micro
Nov 14, 2007 11:36:56 GMT -4
Post by Jake P. on Nov 14, 2007 11:36:56 GMT -4
If you have TAD and you watched the first treasure guardian video, this micro strat no longer works. The Guardians now get back full health when the START walking back. Not when they get there like with TWC and Vanilla.
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Micro
Nov 14, 2007 11:38:31 GMT -4
Post by Jake P. on Nov 14, 2007 11:38:31 GMT -4
lol just watched the cannon video! WHO CALLED IT BABY! **EDIT** Those video's were very helpful ben. I actually learned a trick or two myself. It seems like the way to micro most units effectively (or at least partly) is to split them into two groups. I also liked, and he didn't do this very often, how he touched on unit movements like flanking. Don't underestimate the power of flanking. It makes the enemy split his army into or retreat, which is most of the time bad.
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Micro
Nov 14, 2007 12:25:42 GMT -4
Post by pcups on Nov 14, 2007 12:25:42 GMT -4
It's much easier to have two groups of units, especially when you don't need the full force your army to take out just unit, such as a skirm vs a rodelero. Also you can use trees to your advantage, units have bad pathing issues through trees. Also, in town defense, let them attack your buildings, that is, if you can pick them off fast enough. When you retreat, for some reason people think they can kill all the buildings they want. So just wait, and then pick them off with skirms or archers. Your buildings are your biggest advantage when being rushed, which is why its so hard to rush people. Don't take this the wrong way Ben, but I've played some ridiculous guys when it comes to micro. Like the guys who have nothing better to do except ruin my fun. It's hard to survive once you become level 28+ in sup . Those guys are just too good.
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Micro
Nov 14, 2007 14:13:01 GMT -4
Post by boorules60 on Nov 14, 2007 14:13:01 GMT -4
That was the most important trick that I learned. While it is good to kill one unit at a time so that you're not weakening all of them without killing them, the flanking and pincering can really minimize the amount of idle time that your units spend in between units since they all cant stand on the same point anyway. It's also important to pull away units that are hurt or almost dead.
The cannon/grenadier tricks are handy too and I never really thought to do that. Most skirms won't be killing them right away so it makes the most sense to maximize their area effect. We really need to start protecting our cannons better by using the box formation because it is so hard to get through! Since no one uses culvs, it doesn't really matter.
I also think that petards are underused by our group in supremacy. They really do pack a punch, and aren't super expensive. In the third age, rather than just send a cav or TC raid, we should really utilize the petard raid to totally catch people off guard where the battle is not taking place.
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